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WASHINGTON (AP) 鈥� Elon Musk, preparing to step back from his work leading the Department of Government Efficiency, had a request of the reporters gathered at the White House to interview him: Before he would answer any questions, he wanted someone to tell him a joke.

The tech billionaire鈥檚 request in the Roosevelt Room on Wednesday underscored the surreal and idiosyncratic presence of the world鈥檚 richest man at the highest echelons of American power. Over the past few months, his work of downsizing the workforce has sent shocks through the federal government and drawn intense pushback, including protests of his electric vehicle company, Tesla.

Musing about his and DOGE鈥檚 incongruous role in the U.S. government, he said, 鈥淚t is funny that we鈥檝e got DOGE.”

鈥淒oesn’t the absurdity of that seem, like, like, are we in a simulation here or what鈥檚 going on? But, like, it was a meme coin at one point,” he said, laughing. “How did we get here?鈥�

Musk, clad in all black but missing the two hats he had worn at Wednesday’s earlier Cabinet meeting, defended DOGE’s work as he prepares to scale back his government role and spend more time at his businesses. But he gave hazy answers about the work he鈥檇 been doing and DOGE鈥檚 future, and he seemed taken aback by the intense backlash he鈥檇 encountered.

鈥淏eing attacked relentlessly is not super fun,” he said. 鈥淪eeing cars burning is not fun,鈥� he added, referring to the instances of Tesla cars being smashed or set on fire.

鈥淚n the grand scheme of things, I think we鈥檝e been effective. Not as effective as I鈥檇 like. I think we could be more effective,鈥� Musk said. 鈥淏ut we鈥檝e made progress.鈥�

DOGE’s large-scale slashings have been met with dozens of lawsuits. DOGE’s attempts to access sensitive government information, including Social Security data, has similarly met resistance in court. And Democrats this week unveiled an online tracker tallying the federal funds approved by Congress that DOGE has blocked, setting up a constitutional struggle between two branches of government.

Musk wouldn鈥檛 offer examples of anything he鈥檇 do differently, though DOGE is nowhere near its original savings goal and has overstated its progress.

DOGE had sought to cut spending by $1 trillion. Musk estimates he鈥檚 cut $160 billion so far and acknowledged it would be hard to get anywhere close to $1 trillion.

“It’s sort of, how much pain is the Cabinet and the Congress willing to take?” Musk said. 鈥淚t can be done, but it requires dealing with a lot of complaints.鈥�

Musk didn’t detail any of those complaints and said he has a good relationship with President Donald Trump’s Cabinet. But when asked about clashes with certain members, particularly Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Musk said, 鈥渁t times, there will be some disagreements with the Cabinet.鈥�

He defended DOGE鈥檚 attempts to access Americans’ personal data, dismissing concerns about a potential 鈥渟urveillance state鈥� by quipping, 鈥淒on鈥檛 we already have a surveillance state?鈥� He said DOGE needs to access the systems in its hunt for fraud, and said, 鈥淭here has to be some way to reconcile the improper payments.鈥�

He said DOGE has referred cases of suspected fraud to the Justice Department, though he offered few details, including how many referrals were made. Antonio Gracias, a Musk investor working for DOGE, pointed to the indictment last week of an Iraqi man living in New York on charges he illegally voted in the 2020 election. U.S. prosecutors said DOGE assisted in the investigation.

Musk acknowledged there were some instances in which they had to restore the jobs of government workers who, in his words, were 鈥渁ccidently let go,鈥� like 鈥渟ome people that were doing important regulatory work or taking care of national parks.鈥�

When asked if he鈥檚 found any areas where he鈥檇 recommended efficiencies beyond cuts, Musk veered into the nation’s military strategy and said he has repeatedly recommended to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth that he should be spending more money on hypersonic missiles and long-range drones instead of on crewed systems.

Musk said DOGE is also working on improving connectivity for the nation鈥檚 air traffic control system and reviewing plans to improve its software, but DOGE鈥檚 primary goal is 鈥渢rying to stop wasteful and fraudulent spending.”

But on other points, he was vague.

Who will lead DOGE when he leaves?

鈥淒OGE is a way of life,鈥� he said. 鈥淟ike Buddhism.鈥�

Will he retain the title of senior adviser to the president?

鈥淚 guess.鈥�

Will DOGE wrap up its work by July 2026, as originally stated?

鈥淚f the president wants us to stick to that date, we’ll stick to that date.鈥�

How many of the roughly 100 DOGE employees will stay on the job while he winds down?

鈥淪ome will stay on. Some will not. So it’s up to them. This is basically a volunteer organization.鈥�

Is DOGE winding down?

鈥淣o, I think it will gain momentum.鈥�

Musk struck up a friendship with Trump during the 2024 campaign and spent nearly $300 million on the election 鈥� the bulk of which went toward helping the Republican reclaim the White House. He has since become a constant presence with Trump for much of the first 100 days of the administration, regularly traveling with the president to his home in Florida on the weekends.

Musk said Wednesday that he was working on DOGE seven days a week during the first months of the administration, at times sleeping in the Lincoln Bedroom at Trump鈥檚 invitation.

He declined to say just how many times he had slept at the White House but said the president had implored him to try the caramel ice cream from the kitchen.

鈥淒on鈥檛 tell RFK,鈥� Musk joked, referring to Trump鈥檚 Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Musk described it as an 鈥渋ntense period鈥� during which he was trying to understand and map out the federal government.

鈥淚t鈥檚 a startup, effectively. A new administration is like a startup,鈥� he said.

But he said he is now scaling back his work on DOGE, spending one to two days a week on it, and he plans to be in Washington less.

鈥淣ow we鈥檙e getting more of a rhythm so the amount of time that鈥檚 necessary for me to spend here is much less,” he said.

He also pointed to the limitation on his status as a special government employee, which means he can only work 130 days in a 365-day time period.

He said he will keep his 鈥渢iny鈥� office on the second floor of the West Wing that he said has 鈥渁 view of nothing鈥� 鈥� a feature, he then remarked, that keeps him safe.

鈥淚t鈥檚 harder to shoot me,鈥� he said. 鈥淭here’s not a good line of sight.鈥�